Capability Threshold And The Big Question

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Alright, JC Fowler here with my partner James Wilson Jr. Yo yo. For most leaders, the thing holding them back isn't a lack of talent. It's not using what they bring to the table on purpose. Their best contribution is underused, misused, or buried under everybody else's expectations. Ben there. That's the capability threshold and where we're going today. The question is, what do I bring to the table and how do I use it well? Last episode we took kind of the 30,000-foot view, but part two today, we want to drill down further as we help you name it, claim it, and take one simple step to use it in your own life and leadership. Name it and claim it. Man, I love me a good rhyme. Tell me, tell me how uh how important, James, is rhyming and alliteration? Scale one to ten. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Man, I think you can't properly communicate with people unless you've got a rhyme and an alliteration. Like, why else are you even communicating? Like, honestly, the the best communicators in the world, in my opinion, at least in my tradition, it's been, man, you've got to have a great alliteration. You've got to, you you just know how much that means to me. Like to an acronym, an alliteration and a rhyme. Like, it's just how you do it. Be honest, be honest.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Have you ever made up a word to complete your alliteration? Of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Like, yeah, you just you just kind of add, like, what's the uh if the prioritization and I might add uh what is it? Uh loveization. Like, nobody knows what that is. That's okay. You have to now, you know, figure it out.

Strengths, Drains, And Intentional Leadership

SPEAKER_00 1:50

I mean, it's memorable when you got people scratching scratching their heads. You literally think in alliteration and acronym. I love it. It makes it sticky, man. It makes it sticky. All right, here's the big idea. Uh a little recap from last episode. Uh, if you didn't uh go back and listen to it, um, ton of value. Uh we are wired with strengths and drains. So that's an assumption we're making. We we unpacked this last time. We are wired with strengths and drains. And the idea is that we want to lean into our strengths and build around our drains, these things that drain us. And so crossing the capability threshold requires knowing what you bring to the table. Right. We got to know it. Yep. And then how to use it. Use it. So here's when we say this: the win today isn't that you would become a different leader. That is not the goal. The win would be that you get clear about your best contribution and putting it to work on purpose. And here's the kicker no matter what seat that you're in.

A Storyteller Unleashes The Room

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, yeah, that's good, man. That's good. No matter what seat you're in. It um we were talking about this, man, and kind of prepping for it. I thought of the story. So I am the associate director with a program called Uptick, and we get an opportunity to work with some Christian leaders in different spaces and actually just nonprofit leaders. And so I've been taking a group of pastors and leaders on a journey recently. Um, we started a couple weeks ago, and it's a three-month intensive. And a part of what we were doing was trying to get them to share their story. And so what we did was we have this framework we use called the Art of Transformational Narrative. And so the framework is challenge, choice, um, change, and then call, right? So that's kind of the that's what I'm saying. You mean of course I didn't make that up. I'm just saying, but it works. Like the you gotta have it. I like it. So, so it's so sticky. So, anyways, we're trying to get them to use this framework so that they can actually tell their story because in their journey, that's what's going to move the needle forward. So there's 16 participants in there, we're in this room, and I'm like, oh, I got the perfect guy to call on. Like, if I call on him, he's gonna set the room on fire. He's a great storyteller, he's he's funny, he's charismatic, and everybody loves him. So his gift, it's like he can actually move a room. And matter of fact, I had just had dinner with this guy the night before, and he told me the story of how this happened and that happened, and he moved me to tears and laughter in the same sentence. Dude is good. So, anyways, I get him. I'm like, all right, we've got an hour and a half, y'all. I'm gonna try to get to everybody. There's 16 of y'all. So, how about we just kind of here's our framework, just share briefly. I had him write it before briefly, just share briefly because y'all like to talk. It's a lot of pastors, they love to talk. So I give it, give him the mic. He shares a story, and it's this two-minute story, and I'm like, This is not what you shared. Everything went flat, the room just went flat, and you know those moments, you're like, This is not good. Anyways, somebody in the back says, Tell the story you told last night. So he began to share the story, and it took longer than two minutes. But as he shared the story, he had everyone in the room laughing and crying. And then what happened was everyone else started to go. And when they started sharing their story, there was this level of vulnerability that happens. There's this level of like, oh, now I'm sharing, there's connection, and the room moved so like it moved forward because this guy, first of all, had permission to actually share his story. Because I was putting him in a box, I was like, hey, you can only have two minutes, but he shared a story, and that story was his unique strength that actually moved things forward. And so, as we think about this the identity and capability threshold, that bridge is okay, I've got to be clear on who I am, I've got to be clear on my story, and I've got to know how to use it. And so this guy, I was I unintentionally was telling him not to use his greatest strength. But when he used that strength, man, fireworks, right?

Naming Your Best Contribution

Questions That Reveal Your Strength

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, so interesting how unintentionally, inadvertently, you you didn't mean to do that. And nor, and it's not like anything you said was wrong, but so interesting how the environment and what we hear can sort of impact how we bring what is our highest and best contribution. That's it. Uh, and then he does that, and of course the room is on fire. I think that's awesome. Yeah, man. Um, man, get me in a room like that. Let's go. Let's go, man. All right. So last week, uh, we want to give just a couple of clear things. We want to talk about naming it and claiming it. Um, naming it has to rhyme. Naming it, we did talk about last week. Uh, but as we were having this conversation, we were thinking, man, most leaders can name their role. Oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm the director of oh, I'm I do strategic partnership. Oh, I'm I'm over ops. Yep. Most people can name their role, right? But not their highest and best contribution. And that really is what moves the needle. That's good. So last last week we said a couple things we just want to remind our listeners of. When we try and figure out our capability, our strengths, uh, we discover it as we go. So it isn't like, oh, just like uh go up to the mountains and you know meditate and figure it out. Although, hey, maybe that could be productive, but we discover it as we go, and community helps. Oftentimes we figure out, yo, you're really good at this, or hey, that comes naturally for you, but not other people. So in the context of community, we figure it out. Um, and our challenge was for you guys to take a simple inventory of where you felt alive and where you felt drained. Yeah. If anybody did that and took that homework, uh, we would love to hear from you, podcast at cttleadership.com. Love it. Uh, would just love to hear what that experience was like, what you noticed, um, and maybe what that means moving forward. Here's two questions that you came up with to try out as we continue to try and name our strengths. Yeah. What do people consistently come to you for?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

What do people consistently come to you for? Yo, can you help us get a team together? Hey, do you have any ideas around? Hey, we really need to organize this, and what do people consistently come to you for? And then this.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Craig Rochelle said something, I think it was Craig Rochelle that said something so powerful that the value you bring to an organization is the problem that you solve. And so that is it. Like, what do people consistently come to you for, right? It is this, oh, I come to JC to solve this problem. I go to, so yes, you're the director of this or the you know strategic leader of this and the CEO or you're in this suite, but the reality is people are coming to you to solve a particular problem. And you've got to figure out what that problem is. That's your highest value.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Answer that for me. What what I can I think I can answer it for you, but what problem, what problem do you solve?

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Man, I mean you solve a lot of problems, but I solve a lot of problems. No, no, the the unique problem that I solve is I help people um in reality, I help people think about things they've never thought about. Like the problem that I solve is I help people navigate difficult territory without losing themselves. Right. That's that's just kind of I've noticed, oh, we can actually have and maintain a relationship without losing ourselves. I'll just just case in point, just to let the audience know, we had our first fight today. First fight today.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, we had our first fight. It was real too, man. It was real, it was so real.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

But a part of the strength that you bring, and I know the strength that I bring is that you know, hard times and challenging conversation, um, you know, conflict doesn't have to lead to, you know, what is it? Conflict doesn't have to lead to war. Conflict actually can lead to deeper intimacy.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

And I think that that's kind of what what we are experienced like. So my my role, my goal is always to okay, how do I actually help people navigate? So when people come to me, it's usually like, hey, how do you help me think through?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Can I put it a different way? Yeah, please, go ahead, man. You help people get unstuck, dude.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Okay, I'll take that.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Because you're able to help them question what they've taken for granted and these assumptions. That's just one problem you see. That's good, man. I was I was also gonna say you you help people come up with new ideas, like a simply way to say that, like to create energy around a new thing, yeah, which also I think uh brings solutions to problems. That's good, man.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Um well let me let me add to you, man. Yeah, you gotta do this tip tit for tat thing. No, I um I think that you you put, I was gonna say, frameworks, you actually make sense of things. Like I think that's your unique gift, is that you can actually call out, bring tension, and say, okay, here is how we move forward. I think it's right, it's great that you are able to not just systematize. I think people can do that, but you actually allow folks to get clear on things.

Personality Inventories Pros And Dangers

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah. No, I've just that framework is so you just that really just changed how I think about my role, honestly, in in in what we're doing and all over the place is uh what what problem am I uniquely equipped to solve? Yeah, like hey, we need people to get excited around this thing. Oh, I'm your guy. That's a problem. We don't have anyone on board, we don't have a team. Oh, okay. That's really good. That's really good. Okay, so what do people come to you consistently for? Or what problem do you uniquely solve? Yeah, and then I feel like this hits on this, but I love this framework and it's an alliteration, so y'all are gonna get it. Where do you make things better naturally? Some examples, people, process, pace, perspective. That's a whole episode, man. That's good. Yeah. It's like potpourri or poopree. Yeah, whatever it is. Pooporee. Oh no. We told you we had a fight, now it's intimate. It's really real in here. It's real in here, man. Um, where do you make things uh better naturally? Yeah. People process pacer perspective. Yeah, that's interesting. Like you had just said perspective. I may have answered that for me for process. Not that this is exhaustive, but I think that's good. So as you're listening, just think like, okay, what is it for me? We touched last week on some personality inventories, and these things, these things are hot, man. If you're listening, I th I my guess is that our listeners, the majority of them, like personality inventories uh because they like to learn and grow. Um, they may not be personality inventory junkies like me. Um, I have checked off, I feel like just about everyone, but there are definitely a cohort of people that hate them. I actually talked to uh a woman the other day just doing some outreach, and she had said, Oh, I don't know if I want to do that. And I said, Okay, well, you don't think it makes sense for your role? And and she's actually uh stay-at-home mom, but just a just a leader of leaders, man. Like she just she's running this thing, running. I'm like, wow, I'm like, I would love to do this for you. I just if you can go out and set the world on fire, I'm happy to be a part of it. And she had mentioned, well, I can sometimes fixate on things and not be able to unsee it. So that's kind of interesting. Yeah, if you're gonna all of a sudden be like, well, this is who I am, and because I think a I think a danger of personality inventories, we want to get in, okay, what are the pros, what are the dangers? Maybe we'll just start with dangers. One of the dangers is it can paint people in a box if we're not careful. Yep. Or on the flip side, uh, we can paint ourselves in a box. Yeah, that's good. And all of a sudden, um we can make excuses, say, oh, that's just the way I am. I'm like, okay, that may be true, and you are still responsible for the result there. There it is. Um, or we can make judgments against other people.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Like, oh, you're a oh, you're a wonderer, James. Like, oh, he's a wonderer, so he's not gonna wanna uh, you know, whatever talk about these details, which maybe that doesn't bring you joint energy, but all of a sudden we start judging people for like, yeah, well, you know, you whatever, think about like Enneagram, you're the challenger, so now everything you do is challenging. I'm like, well, I don't think that's true. Yeah, yeah. So we can pay people.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Yeah, I think you're right, man. We we love we love labels. Like we we absolutely love labels. And I and I think there's there's good to it in that we are trying to, many of us are trying to figure out how to how to figure out the world, right? Figure out our lives.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Like organize, I'm just trying to organize and categorize.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

And so it's easier to say, um, it's easier to say I'm this, um, because that leads to the piece that it's easier to excuse myself with this and say, I'm this, as opposed to, like you said, take responsibility and own, like, uh, but I didn't show up in this area. I think it's I I heard someone say, and I always love this, is that uh pride makes excuses, but humility makes adjustments. And I think as we think through this, it is just this. So I'm I'm man, I'm not just alliterations. I got baby. Come on, give it to me. Yes. Oh gosh. All right, so yeah, I think the dangers though, man, is that it it's so often is that we make excuses for the things. So you and I were just in that in this moment. Um, we had a we had a critical moment where you brought up some things. It's like, yo, um, I'm a little frustrated with X, Y, and Z. And I had a critical moment where I could have been like, well, and in the back of my mind, I'm like, well, I got this and I'm doing this, and my brain's here, and I'm a wonderer, and I'm I'm a three on the Enneagram, and I'm I'm I and T J and I'm I and T P and um I'm I'm this here and I'm that. And I could say all the things instead of just saying, yeah, you're right. I didn't do that. You know, and I think about how often um do we find ourselves in conflict with others um because we won't say those magic words. I'm sorry. Right, I apologize. Like just think about the conflicts in our lives, the conflicts with the people that we love the most is that sometimes that's the real danger, is that we use those labels and we excuse ourselves, and you've talked about it before, but we also now hold others to an unrealistic, an unrealistic standard. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

No, that's so real. Just thinking about some of the pros now. And yeah, just yeah, that conflict went way better because you owned it. I got to own some things, and then all of a sudden we went wow. Not like, well, that's just the way I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where do you even where do you even go from there? Hey, I'm upset about something. Well, that's just the way I am. Okay, okay. So this relationship's over. That's how it's gonna be. Yeah, we're breaking up. Oh my gosh. Uh don't worry, everybody. We're not breaking up. We're not breaking up, y'all stuck with us. That's great. Yeah. So uh one of the pros, I think, is that when we understand how someone else is wired, we can uh it's more for me, and I think this is true of humans, that we more readily will embrace empathy when we have a better understanding. And even in this conflict, you had said to me, Hey, I'm not making any, hey, this is an excuse. I want you to understand kind of um what I'm walking in right now. And oh, yeah, it's so helpful. And even your framing, I was like, Yeah, I want to understand. Great. Um, and I think these inventories can help us kind of demonstrate that grace and overcome the kind of guilt and judgment when we say, Oh, okay. Um, that is not what brings them joy and energy. Like, that is not something they are, and like we said last episode, oh, so now we can really champion them when they are doing those things. Like, oh, I know that's kind of a drain for you, but you're a servant, so you're jumping in and doing it. You see it's critical to the mission. Oh, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna get that done. What else?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

What else for pros for I think the beautiful thing is the shared language, right? It is it is us being able to say, like, hey, I realize I operate this way. I realize my background that kind of came up in our conversation. Yeah, I'm man, I we you Noelle brought it up, your wife brought it up that okay, you JC, you like you like conflict. You actually, that's that's a party thing. I don't necessarily like conflict, but I'm comfortable with it. Right. And so because of it, it's like we're able to sit down and say, okay, here's some language that we share together. Here's some things that um I know this personality inventory, and here's what I typically go towards. Yes. Here's how I'm trying to make sense of my world, and that shared language allows both of us to understand, oh, he's not crazy, he's not wrong, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Which is different. And once you I don't know if ever other people have this experience, I've seen it in a ton of leadership contexts. Maybe you've had this experience recently where you felt like you couldn't talk about something until it was named or talked about. Yeah. And then it was like, oh, now it's open. And it's like, well, why do you want to talk about it? And we're gonna get into authority in in a bit, but it's like, uh, that's my boss, or uh, I feel bad, or uh, I don't want to be overly critical, or uh, and then someone says, like, hey, how's it going in this space? And you go, Hey, remember we did that thing together and we realized that oh, JC, like uh uh you don't you don't love coming up with new ideas. Well, I felt like you were checked out in the brainstormer meeting. Like, oh yeah, hey, you know what? I was yeah, I kind of was checked out, and but because we had the language, we can say, hey, I know invention isn't your thing, if invention is kind of the tool that we're using, or the the framework, if you will. That's good, man. So I think that's important. And I would say, here's why I'm the biggest fan of personality inventories. They, I think the right ones, and we'll talk about one that we love in a second. They can build trust faster than almost any other tool I know of because you get that shared understanding, you get that shared language, you get these aha moments. Oh, and you get to sort of see oh, the unique contributions that people bring. And then if you have been working together, you go, oh wow, that's why. Yeah. And it's way easier to fill in the gap. Sure. It's the patterns, yep, with a generous explanation. Yeah. When you go, oh, okay, that's how they're wired, that's what they like. Yeah. Or even like, wow, you don't like that, and you've been doing that. Like, thank you. You know, I didn't even realize.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Uh I think that they give a fuller picture of the world, right? So when we're not, when we are stuck in our own brain, our own little like world, we only see it from our perspective, right? You you bring you wherever you go. But when you invite others, I think that's the beauty of the personality inventory. When you when you take yours, but you see how it actually fits up with others on your team and in your life, it's like, oh, that's why me and that person always are coming at each. Uh okay. Now I know how to adjust. Now I can actually say, you know what? This is not uh issue as much as you had different expectations than I did. Right. Or she had different expectations than he did, or you know, he had different expectations than they did, like all of these things. We just I think that's what it really brings for me. It's a it's a fuller, a fuller picture.

Working Genius As A Team Tool

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah, it really enables teamwork, right? We we almost need to open up the capability threshold to get to the teamwork threshold. That's it. So uh, like you were saying, some of the magic happens in the context of teams. Yeah. Uh you'll hear us talk about the working genius a lot. That is it's like 20% personality inventory, 80% productivity tool. We say that because, yes, uh uh it is about these six activities of work from conception to completion that we believe we are wired with. Again, Table Group, Patrick Lencioni, great work, uh David Podcast, all About it. Um, but it's a productivity tool because the real magic really happens in the context of a team to understand how the pieces fit together, what are sort of the ways that we um go and the working genius has literally changed the way that we think about life and leadership. And so I'm gonna give you just a quick snapshot of it. There are these six activities. Everyone has two geniuses, two competencies, and two frustrations. Here's what you really need to know there are two activities of work that just energize you, bring you joy, energy, fulfillment. You're probably good at them because you like to do them. Great. We want to try and lean in those. Then on the frustrations, there are two activities of work that uh drain our energy. And so we want to navigate those and build around those and leverage our team to use those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can think about it like this uh there's three stages of work ideation, activation, implementation. We can have these geniuses or frustrations all throughout those things, but you can see this project from conception to completion, and that at different stages in the work, different things are important. And so if we're in this brainstorming meeting or this off-site, we're like, oh, wonder invention, that's awesome. You can imagine some conflict if someone uh at the bottom of that implementation sort of uh where their geniuses are in those activities, they're like, Well, how are we gonna get that done? Maybe you've been a part of a meeting like that. You're in a brainstorming meeting, and someone says, Well, that's not realistic. And all the people that are the ideators go, Yeah, well, we're just ideating. Like, why are you raining our parade?

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Just talking.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Or on the flip side, you're like, you're in implementation mode and you're about to carry this thing across the finish line, you're whatever, crossing the T's, dotting the I's, and just like finishing the spreadsheet. And someone comes along and goes, Well, I have another idea. What if we did this instead? And you're like, uh, what? Now that's actually their unique contribution, but the timing of it just isn't great. Timing and timing. Um, yeah. So that's just that's just one of our favorites. That's kind of just like a quick snapshot of it. I think there really is a place for personality inventories, uh, especially in the context of teams, building understanding, giving us a shared language for navigating conflict, but we need to be careful not to judge and paint people in a box. Yeah. Um, I'll say this great leaders know their strengths and do not pretend that they have no drains. Instead, they design around it. I love it, man. So we can name it and we gotta claim it.

Claiming Strength With Responsibility

SPEAKER_01 25:54

We gotta claim it. Well, let's talk about it, right? So the alliteration, the first one was name it. This idea of claim it is you've got to claim whatever that strength is, you've got to actually own it. And we've talked about that before, but the idea of just owning who you are, where you are. I love working with clients, and they finally get a sense of, oh, this is who I am. And they finally said, Oh, I'm actually going to use this for some good. Because I think that that's that's the key, right? With this whole idea of claiming it, is that being strong isn't the goal. Like just eating food isn't the goal. The goal is actually using it. Like, I actually want to use my strength for this. Is a whole side note, we may not run out of time. I used to make fun of bodybuilders um because I'm looking at these dudes with like, I mean, you got 30-inch biceps, but you can't touch your back. Like, it's what's the what's the purpose? You know, but the the reality is being strong isn't the goal, being useful is, and so when we think about that, we're gonna be. I'm feeling some shots fired this thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

I was in bodybuilding for a little while, but it's cool. Nah, we love our bodybuilding.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

We're still making up, man. We're still making up. Um, but but what we have to think through is that responsibility is the outcome you're accountable for, right? So kind of taking that idea of ownership and really understanding that if I have a strength, then I am responsible for it. But I'm also accountable for it. Because I don't we don't want people to just assume, like, oh yeah, I'm just going, I'm strong in this area and I can just do and say whatever I want. Like we were talking about it, that one of your unique gifts is to challenge, it's to say, you know what? Hey, let's yeah, I don't know about this. Yeah. But we also said, hey, we probably have to figure out how we approach that. Right. So it's or when, right? So it's is it most useful in this environment? So I want us to kind of think through this. Are you bringing your best? Right? Understanding that people are counting on you. If you're on a team, any and I think that we gotta kind of pull that that wool for a second that every one of us, one, is a leader because leadership is influence. Every one of us is also a part of a team. Whether you're, I mean, even SpongeBob, like and Patrick, they live under sea, but they're a team. Like it's the idea that every one of us is a part of a team. That's good. And so we have to think through that each team is looking for us to bring our best, but they also now need to think through how do we design our work and our team around our best. And that's when we start seeing shifts. And so let me kind of pull another thread that we were talking about before we go. This idea of you have responsibility, and from responsibility, there's also this accountability that you have. But what it also shows up with your strength, what you've probably noticed is because of the influence you have, is there's authority, right? Like we've got, like, there's some people that you've got your strength allows you to have power over them. And so we've got to talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Well, I think you're saying, yeah, it's okay. We need to like name these strengths, yeah. And also we need to claim them appropriately for the place and season. For the place and season. And I think questions of authority really become important because we can have authority based on uh just some of the expertise or the gifting we bring, right? Like, oh, he's the speaker, like whatever. Yeah, yeah. Or they're really good at that. Um, but also like we can have formal authority. Yeah. Um, and I think depending on where you are in the organization, unless you're just starting out, all of us have a space where we have some formal authority. And that's why I think we want to think through that.

Use Authority To Create Ownership

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah. Um well, let me let me let's do this real quick before we close out. It's thinking through how do we use that. Let's get super practical, right? If you do have formal authority, here's some ways that you can navigate this. It's aim your contribution at creating ownership, not dependence. Right. Right? There, there is a sense that people love to have autonomy. And and with autonomy, there is a sense that I want to be the master of this thing. And so you want to figure out the uh the leadership hack right now is you've got authority. The best thing you can do is actually give it away. Right. Like allow others to create some ownership. Right. So I that's that's number one.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah, so well, no, I just when you're saying that, I'm hearing you say, like, don't sure you have these strengths and you want to use them, but don't let those strengths become uh almost like bottlenecks of dependence on you. Yeah, it should be the opposite. You should be leveraging those strengths so that you can give people ownership. That's it. Um, I really like that. Yeah, if you if you want people on board, they need to own it, and people only own things when it's like it's their idea, they help create it. That's that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah, man. Um, so some scripts. We were kind of talking through that. Like, here's how you can approach it. If somebody's wondering, how do I give that ownership away? Whether you are a CEO, uh a PhD student, a stay-at-home mom, or stay-at-home dad. Here's what here's a script for you. Number one, you own this. Here, here's yours. This is yours to own. Number two is here's what done looks like. That is so powerful that we we could go another tangent. You own this, here's what done looks like, and then here's when we check in. Let's actually, so you're not, I think the danger sometimes or the fear in giving uh the authority away is what's gonna happen to it? What's gonna happen to the organization? What's gonna happen to the mission? Right, what happens to our relationship? But if we have some of these frameworks or these barriers, filters, if you will, if we have these filters, it allows us to move forward, it allows you to actually continue to claim your your strength and your space and your season.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

So you said you own it, here's what done looks like done looks like, and here's when we check in, and here's when we check in.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

That's really so that's that full accountability space.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah, so yeah, I mean, you authority is what you bring to the table. Yep, yeah. So wow, that's that's really good. I really like that. I think uh we were talking about the difference too, like authority comes with a role, but influence comes with trust. Yeah, yeah. And we can't miss that. Um, I think John Maxwell talks about these five levels of leadership, yep. And the first level is just about uh like the role. It's a role, yep. He's he's got an alliteration in the room. Yeah, it's I think it's a role, yeah, and then two is relationship, and then he anyway. Um, but yeah, great. That's a starting point, but you don't want that to be the finishing point. It can't be the finish point. Andy Stanley said, Um, great pastor and leader, said uh you can you can rent hands, but you can't rent hearts, which is why he says that leadership is inspiring people to do the work that needs to be done. There it is. It's like you our job as leaders is to help people see the value and importance of the work in front of us, and therefore uh the ultimate goal is we we want people to want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Like to almost stoke and cultivate that desire in them. Uh, so with our authority, if that's what we bring to the table, we can point and tell people what to do, or we can give that authority away, create ownership, leverage our strengths to do that, and then therefore, man, people are gonna take the ball down the field farther than we would have ever imagined.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah.

Leading Without Authority In Second Chair

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Um, so that's authority. That's huge. But what if we don't have authority?

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Yeah, no, this one is always good. I love working with leaders who are in second chair. I love working with leaders who are in the middle. Um, I think I think we have so many resources for uh the senior lead or top chair, right? But there's something about being in that second seat where you're you're having to really leverage influence. You're leveraging all of the things like I have this strength, I could do this. And language might be I have to lead up often. So here's a couple of things that we kind of came up with. It's the way that you aim your contribution, right? Your greatest strength, is you aim that contribution at earning influence. So here it is reliability. So I now need to do what I said I'm gonna do, right? So any leader or anybody on your team for me to say, hey, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna say, I'm gonna do, like that was a part of the conflict we were navigating. It's like, are you doing what you said you were gonna do? Right, right? Usefulness. Again, I'm gonna bring options and recommendations. So I'm looking to actually actively solve problems. So despite how much of an inventor I may be or wonder I may be, I need to show up and not just bring problems or poke holes in things, but I've actually got to bring some solutions to the mix as well. Right. And then finally, it's communication. Um, I love this that you know, clarity is kindness. The idea of communication is often the issue we run into when you're in the second chair, is that the person that's leading you doesn't know what you need. Right. So you actually need to find a better way of communicating. Hey, here's what I need. Right. Here's what you said you were going to do. Here's what you've asked me to do. And if I do what you're asking me to do next, how will it affect what you've already asked me to do before? So there's again, that's another episode. I feel like y'all, we're just like downloading a lot. Yeah, but this is uh, yeah, that's where I would go.

One Simple Step And Next Threshold

SPEAKER_00 35:22

No, that's really good. I think there's probably someone listening right now that is wondering how do I lead up? I feel stuck in this position, and uh my senior leader isn't responding, or you know, I'm I'm not happy with how we're advancing the mission, or I feel like this is gonna impact the bottom line in ways. And I think that can be a really frustrating space. So we just want to name that. Like it's frustrating. Uh I don't have the authority. Um, and so the option really is you are not helpless. And hey, maybe a move and a transition uh should happen. But here's what we know uh that is difficult, that takes time, there's a cost to organizations to do that. Yep. And so it feels simple, like you said, but just be consistent, yep, be useful, that is, and communicate. Ask the question how do I leverage my strengths to uh contribute to the team, to the organization, to whatever, and do it in that way. And own it. Just do it, yeah. Own it, right? Yeah. No, that that's really good. We can, I think we can actually that might be another episode for another time. Um, yeah, you can't you can't control the system always, but you can't influence the system. Uh you are not helpless. All right. So here's our uh one step. Last week we asked you guys to take a little inventory um of what drains you and what strengthens you or what energizes you. Uh, really simple. Just tell someone about what you came up with. Just tell them, make somebody aware. Hey, I'm recognizing this. And in that conversation, you might even realize more. So, hey, I recognize this thing brought me uh joy, energy, strength, made me come alive. This thing really was a drain for me. Tell somebody and just process that with them. And I think that'll keep moving you down where you can figure it out. The other kind of bonus one is please take a personality inventory. Uh, we love to work in genius, we would love to walk you through a call for fun and for free. And and that is, I will guarantee you that you sit with us and allow us to work through the your those results. Uh, hundreds of people have yet to sit with someone who hasn't gone, oh, we just did two the other day. And both, and every time I get on the call, I'm like, oh, is this gonna be is this really gonna help them? I hope this really helps them. You know, I get a little nervous, both and then like they're like, Oh, so helpful. So helpful. I'm like, wow, and it just always gives me um encouragement on that. What's uh what's your closing thought, man? I would say just own your strength. Bring it, bring it, baby. That's what I would say. Bring it, bring it. I love it. Yeah, for me, it's uh you have a strength, and whether you have authority or not, uh use it, use it for the sake of the good of others. It is, and I I think that some awesome things will happen with that. We are um next time we're going to the clarity threshold how to name the win and stop living like everything is priority one because only one thing could be priority one. Uh, this is the stuff I really nerd out on. So I'm excited, man. All right, y'all. I'm JC. I'm James. Until next time. See y'all. Peace.