Naming Leadership Default Patterns

SPEAKER_01 0:15

When responsibility increases, most leaders don't simply fall apart. They fall into a pattern. Typically, we shrink, we overcompensate, or compare ourselves. And that pattern quietly shapes our decisions, our teams, and our confidence. So today, my name is James Wilson Jr. This is my man, JC Fowler. Today, we are going to help you name your default pattern so you can get unstuck and take one clear step forward. Let's get it.

Shrink, Overcompensate, Or Compare

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Wow. Those patterns are so good. What is it for you? What's when the stakes rise, what's what's your default? Do you shrink, overcompensate, or compare?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

It depends on the season, but um what I've noticed the most is lately I've done a I've done a lot of comparing lately. Usually it's been shrinking, right? I'm not good enough, but right now uh it's been comparing. A lot of shifting in my life, a lot of new things. And so I'm like, I should be further along. Um, but I'm comparing a lot. How about you?

Meeting A Mentor And Finding Agency

SPEAKER_02 1:13

That's so interesting. It has shifted for me too. We were chopping this up. I was thinking about a story. Uh now today I'm at the place of overcompensating, and I do that well. But the story I was thinking about is a story of shrinking. I was 25 years old. I'm leading this volunteer team, about 20 people at this youth center. And uh we go to this conference, and I get to meet my hero, uh Doug Fields, great leader in that in that youth space. And I have one question for him. My question is if you were 25 years old, yeah, and all the people that you were leading were older than you, what would you tell your 25-year-old self?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

It's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Because backstory, I'm leading these people and I have all these ideas, and I I really want to make a difference, I really want to inspire them, but I'm feeling like I'm too young. So I'm staying quiet when I should speak up. So I'm not, I'm not pushing us to take the bold step because I'm like, well, what if I'm wrong? Yeah, no one's gonna listen. We're having these meetings with all these people, and I'm sort of looking around like, well, who's gonna tell us what to do? It's my job, right? Obviously, together. And so I ask him this question, and uh he looks me dead in the eye and he says something so simple, change my life. He says, Don't be a wimp, just lead. Now, that sounds like terrible advice. Like that is so, but it really gave me the freedom. I'm talking to one of my heroes, and he's telling me, I don't care how old you are, people, people will follow you if you are pointing them toward a direction worth going, right? And so I was like, wow, okay. So I got back home and as humbly as I could, I just started trying to lead.

Identity Shift: Just Lead With Clarity

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Dude, that's that's so powerful. One, uh, that we can do a whole nother episode on that. Like, what do you do when you meet your heroes? Uh, I feel like that's so good. Uh, but I'm curious, you took some of this advice, this mentor, this person you looked up to, and you've seen his leadership. Um, how did it affect your leadership? Now that you brought it home, um, what did it do? Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah, I think it's it really is that identity piece of oh, I'm a leader and I have this role has been entrusted to my care, which gives me a responsibility, but also an obligation to help lead. No one is gonna fill in that gap for me. And and it started to shift my thinking of leadership, isn't it like the great man theory, like whatever their great woman, whatever it is, right? Like, oh, a leader is someone who's exceptional at all these things. A leader, like we talked about last episode, is someone who says yes, who's willing to use their story to impact someone else's story and embrace the process. Yeah. And I thought, okay, well, here I am. I'm willing, I have a desire, I have a story. Let me not shrink because I'm too young, I'm too inexperienced. I don't know who's listening right now. Uh haven't been around long enough. I'm not like the last person. I'm not, oh, when I was younger, this happened, I did this, or I made this failure. No, stop. You're in the role, you're in the sphere. And I, when he said that, I was like, there is no better advice you could give me, yeah, than just do it. Like you can, and not like, oh, now I know everything. No, I recognize I don't know everything, but I'm in this position.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah, let's go. I, you know, before we dive into more, I love that this mentor gave you a gift. The gift was agency, the gift is ownership, the gift was, hey, I believe it, go do it. Like, you know, it it is it's the it's that beautiful gift that we give people that we are leading or that work with us to say, I believe in you, go do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

I believe in you, go do it. That's so good. And like you said, um last week, we define these like what is a leader? Leadership is influence. So I'm walking around, I'm not a leader, I'm not a leader, I'm not a leader. I what am I doing here? I'm not a leader. And then he reminded me, yes, you are.

The Pattern Of Shrinking Unpacked

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yep. Now go lead. Go lead, go lead. Well, let's dig in, man. I think that we we are we are navigating some of these patterns, right? So we're gonna, we were kind of circling some of the patterns, and patterns usually feel normal until you name it. So I want to spend a little time naming it. We talked about last episode, uh, where we were coming from, what leadership means um for identity. So let's take a step forward. We're gonna give three of these things, these patterns that we typically fall in. And the first one I thought was really cool. You just hit it. It's the pattern of shrinking. And so let's unpack it just a little bit. We kind of took some notes, but the impact of shrinking is usually it shows up as insecurity, yeah, right? Imposter syndrome, people pleasing, overexplaining, needing approval. And and we we hear it so often, right? It's it's I I gotta I gotta get this, I've gotta ask this one more person. It's right, it's the paralysis of analysis, it's image consciousness, it's all all of these things that we are shrinking back. I've done this so many times in my leadership. And the the thing is it it affects you. Um, shrinking, what I love is that when you look at it, shrinking can look humble, but it's actually fear in disguise. It looks like, oh man, I'm just I'm just trying to lead with humility. No, no, you got it, you got it. And it's like, no, you you you're afraid of what this is going to cause.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

I'm trying to take no risk. Yeah. Right? Put myself out there. Tell us a little bit more about imposter syndrome. I feel like that's thrown around a lot.

Silence, Safety, And Clarity In Teams

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Yeah. And so my my like limited understanding of imposter syndrome is you you usually show up to a place and you often don't feel like you belong. Like you're you're showing up and you believe internally that you're fraud. And it's crazy because you can have so many gifts and so many abilities. You could be leading at really great and high levels, whatever it is, tons of influence, but it's you showing up in a space and you're looking around like, what if they find out? What if they find out What if they find out I don't know what I'm doing? What if they find out I I'm not as confident as they think I am? What if they find out that I'm not who they think I am? And it's it's this you you're in this mindset of, well, I don't really belong here. I'm an imposter. I I somebody else should do it, right? Somebody else could do it better. And what happens is some of the impact, right, is you delay decisions. You delay decisions, you you soften your voice. I like to think of it this idea of shrinking is that I'm showing up to the table. Um, but when I show up to the table, even though I've been invited to the table, I show up and I make myself real small and hopefully nobody notices me. Meanwhile, my team is looking at me. Like you said, I'm 25, I'm this, I'm that. But you're in the seat and people are waiting for you to actually step up and lead. In fact, um, you and I were doing a little bit of research, and I shared this with a group recently. Um, I talked about that leadership is influence, but the dirty little secret of influence is that influence creates pressure. And pressure, if we're not careful, it causes you to lose yourself. And one of the things I share it with them is this quote from uh Amy uh Edmondson, and not a quote, but really this concept. She's at the Harvard Business School. This idea that clarity offers psychological safety. So as we kind of talk about how it affects us, I also want to talk about how it affects your team. That this clarity gives people uh psychological safety. So you shrinking doesn't offer safety. And actually, here's what it looks like you're making decisions, we're showing up trying to do things, and it shows up as uncertainty. It shows up as mixed signals, it shows up as slower momentum. So you think things are going great, but you've avoided that conversation. You haven't told the person what they needed to hear. You've avoided maybe sometimes the hard feedback, but it shows up as this is uncertain. And when it shows up the most, it's that when you shrink, people start guessing what you want. This gets me, waiting for you to decide, and your strongest people either overfunction or stop taking initiative altogether. That's so real.

Fake It Till You Make It Debunked

SPEAKER_02 9:53

I learned that when I'm working with a leader, and I mean like a supervisor, someone who I'm under in this whatever uh formation, I can't stand waffling. It gets me. And it maybe it's because I'm an NEA Grammy and I'm the calendar, and I'm like, I'm like, come on, make a decision. Yeah, but that waffling at like everything you're talking about, I lose such confidence. And we talk about this a lot that like clarity is kindness, and we don't need to give people certainty. Yep. That's not the job of the leader. No, the job of the leader is to give people clarity. Yep, and when things are clear, we can air it out and it creates that psychological safety. I know what to expect, here's what's gonna happen, and the leader, whoever it is, is owning what we don't know. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. And I love I I've seen this a lot with uh all the shifts in the labor market, or even when Doge was like really active and that was all going on, and leaders were saying, like, our people, the morale is dropping, they don't know if they're gonna have their job tomorrow. And instead, and and here's here's like the maybe this is a telltale sign of shrinking. Yeah, uh, I don't want to say the wrong thing. There it is. There it is. Well, guess what? Nothing is the wrong thing. Nothing is the wrong thing. Don't worry, like say something I don't know is even better than nothing because it tells your team, hey, I'm thinking about this, I care about this, I'm human. Yeah, let's figure it out together. But silence, uh, silence is not gonna be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

And you know what's it's dangerous sometimes because we do often equate silence as violence. Um, but there there sometimes but you're right, silence says things, and we've got to be careful that we're not silent on the right things. And I man, that's another episode for another day. But it is this what you said is that I often won't say the right things, or I won't say the thing because I'm afraid. Uh it's fear. I I I shrink back because I don't know what to say, I'm gonna say nothing at all. And what happens is I'll even dress it up and say, Well, I'm trying to protect them. I I don't want to hurt them.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

It sounds good. It's it feels humble, right? But it's actually fear. You don't want to be uncomfortable, you don't want to actually engage in that conversation that may cause some issues for you because again, we are not, it's not that we fall apart, it's that we default to our patterns. Yes. And and man, I we are you and I were listening to an episode uh with Kerry Newhoff and Henry Cloud, and he said something that was mind-blowing. He says, Well, well, how do you show up? And uh, you know, when leaders are doing this, what happens? And he says something like, Well, uh, what happened with you and your dad? What happened with you and your mom? Like all this, this, this sense that there's some areas that we had uh in our family of origin that often shows up in our leadership. And because that was our default pattern then, this is usually how we show up in our leadership. Let's let's move on, man, because we could spend a lot of time.

Vulnerability As A Leader’s Superpower

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Wait, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't. I got one more. And this and I this might be a little controversial, I don't know, so I want to hear it. Um, but one thing I heard was just because it's humble doesn't mean it's helpful or quote unquote humble. Yep. Right? Yep. What do you think about this before we move on to this second pattern? Especially when it comes to imposter syndrome and this idea of shrinking, people will often say, or not, fake it till you make it.

Overcompensating And Control

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah. What do you think? Fake it till you make it is um, I I tend to disagree with that statement. I think it, I think it because even coming from the church world at times, people say, well, fake it till you make it. Okay, so we just dressed it up with uh another fake it till you make it. What they're trying to say is show up. I think a better way would be, and I shared it with this group I was talking with, uh, these young leaders, is that showing up is half the battle. It is, but how you show up is the other half. And so the fake it till you make it is this statement of like, oh, I gotta pretend like I'm in the room. You don't need to pretend. You do need to be vulnerable enough, like you said, to say, hey, I don't know. Like your greatest superpower as a leader is not being Superman, Batman, it's not being a superhero. Your greatest superpower is being human, it's being vulnerable. Like people trust leaders who are real. And so I don't want someone who's telling me they're leading me, telling me I'm faking it till I make it. Now, do you have moments where you have to show up uh and put a smile on your face and and fit? I remember telling a leader this once before. They showed up to a presentation and they were like, uh, you know, all that it was kind of this sad and and really disappointing. I I knew that they could do better, and I pulled them to the side and I said, you know what? You need to fix your face.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Nah, fix your face. Jesus. No, but it's true.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, like I don't want you to fake it till you make it, but I do want a level of confidence that this person, not that they have the answers, but they are, you know what? I'm confident. I'm gonna show up. Um, even if this is challenging, even if I don't know what I'm doing, I would rather know where the person is. I'd rather know that they're weak in this area, that they don't know, because then I know how to serve in support than someone who's like, yeah, I got it all figured out. And then I'm like, well, you don't, you don't need me. And if you got it all figured out, I got questions. You know what I'm saying? Right. I don't know if that answered it.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

No, I like that. I like that take. I show up, show up, show up, rise through it as you say. That's it. That's it. I was thinking I kind of like it, but only because of what you're saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That there is this sense of it's more about the acknowledgement of hey, uh, like there is no I made it. It's like we're making it. Yes. And as you show up and even lead beyond your ability or where you've been, stretch, you are gonna be stretched and you are gonna grow and you're gonna be refined, and just more like the idea, oh, you don't need to fake anything. It's great to be exactly where you're at. Yeah, yeah, and still take the step forward, which is the fear thing.

The Expert Trap And Bottlenecks

SPEAKER_01 17:31

All right, bro. So you you you put us on uh a whole rabbit hole, but this idea that when we fake it, what we're really doing, this is why I don't like it, because we are showing up as play actors, and what that means is I'm showing up as a hypocrite. Yeah, in other words, I'm faking it till I make it. And the danger with faking it until you make it is that there are some things that need to be formed in the hard spots, there's some things that need to be developed in the places that, man, I I don't really know what I'm doing. When I actually show up vulnerably, then I can actually say, Hey, I need this for my team, I need this, I'm feeling this emotion. When we have leaders that are faking it, I'm getting passionate. When we have leaders that are faking it till they make it, they get to these levels where all this faking, there's no depth. Yeah, they get to these levels where now the pressure comes and they break and the whole organization breaks because you faked it till you make it, where what you really needed to do was show up. Show up right and then decide, okay, you know what? I don't have everything I need right now. I'm afraid. Okay, how do I develop courage?

SPEAKER_02 18:37

And if you're faking, you can't create that psychological safety because there is no, there is no connection. It's like, oh, I need to be whatever, I have need to have arrived in order to have a seat at this table. And I think you're right, that is totally the opposite. I also, the greatest image for me for a leader, uh, is a guide, which a guide is someone that is on the journey with you, not someone who says, Well, here, this is exactly where you need to go. We're taking this journey together and we're growing together to grow with rather than just point and tell. I love it, man. That's good. All right, all right. We sorry, we we're getting off, we're getting off.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Go for it, man.

Comparison Steals Action And Joy

SPEAKER_02 19:10

All right. Uh, trap number two, or the second pattern. Um, also just want to say, like, sure, these may be areas of character growth as we talk about fear, and we're gonna talk a little bit about arrogance now, which uh, hello, guilty. Um, but they aren't like uh, these aren't deficits that can't be overcome. They're patterns that are ingrained in us, and I think we need to separate that out, right? Otherwise, we get into the shame game. And the shame game has helped no one ever, not you, not the people you lead, period. I love it. Okay, overcompensating. Here's what it looks like. Uh picture of me. No, I'm just kidding. Um, control, arrogance, defensiveness. I think it can show up as perfectionism, which that's like a little like cousin, like, oh, I see what you're doing, everything needs to be perfect, and now you're holding other people to that standard. That's also not a safe space. Um, that I'll do it myself kind of mentality. Yep. Uh, it can look strong, but often it means insecurity. Overcompensating can look strong, but often it means insecurity. And I think that insecurity is really an inability to either trust or to admit I don't have it all figured out. Yeah. It's that kind of like the stage actor, the mask. I'm gonna put this mask on. Don't I look good? Uh, for me personally, for someone who struggles with this, it is the refusal to be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Like, I don't want to appear weak or feel weak. People might take advantage of me. Um, and so I'm overcompensating. No, I know it, I got it. Uh, the whole the whole deal, dude.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

You said something right before this episode, and I won't get into the content, but you said something to me that what really hit me said, Man, I was telling you, telling my journey, I'm like, dude, I just feel like the shame, right? And we talked about the shame game. You were like, you know my shame, like I'm over here feeling exposed. Yeah, right. And so to be vulnerable, there is exposure. Tell me more about that, man.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Yeah, to be vulnerable, there's exposure. Ooh, that's too deep. I can't go there. Now I'm just playing. No, I'm just playing. Um to invite people in, to not have to fake it till you make it, right? There's freedom in that, but there's also risk.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

What are they gonna do with this? Yep. Now, when we can really cross that identity threshold and we feel like we we have that space where I'm I'm confidently grounded in who I am beyond my role, I no longer have to shrink, obviously, but I also don't need to overcompensate. Yeah, right. Yeah, I can I can show you. Now, I think I heard it this way. It's like, it's like if if if the wound is festering, uh, we we don't want to like we don't lead from that space. Yeah, yeah. Uh if it's like a scab and it's healing, you can bring people on that journey. Yeah. And if it's a scar, yeah, tell the story and tell it boldly, right? That's good. I think that's a helpful framework. We could dig that out more. I don't want to get there, but yeah, um, but I do think that's important. Yeah, feeling when we when we don't want to feel exposed, we grab for control.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah.

Team Whiplash And Unhealthy Competition

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Right? Yeah, it needs to be this way. That's all it gets tighter. And what happens, the impact that has is one, we become the bottleneck. So the whole the production slows, and even again, I don't keep going back to it, but the psychological safety that becomes not really a thing, right? Because of because of what we're creating. Yeah, yeah. And we don't allow other people to grow because we don't give them the ownership. Yeah. And when people don't have ownership, there's no freedom for creativity. So now we're stuck and we're wondering, why are we stalled here? Yep. And the leaders who overcompensate are typically doing this. Why are they not? I'm doing all wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I heard Will Gadera, who I think he wrote uh this one of these amazing books on hospitality, had like the number one restaurant in New York, all about hospitality. It might have been radical hospitality. I don't want to misquote that. Will Gadera, amazing. He said leaders create the conditions for. Connection. If I am out here overcompensating, those conditions for connection shrivel. Yeah. Because I'm controlling everything. I'm invulnerable. I'm whatever. Yep. Um, I think I think that's good.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Nah, that's good, man. That's good. Well, let's dig into this next one, man. The last one. Oh, before we go there, I forgot.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

We were in that research we were doing. I this language, this struck me, and I'm like, we must share. Yeah, yeah. Uh Arminia uh Ibarra, who is a professor in London Business School, she talks about this thing called the expert trap. Yeah. The expert trap, which if you are a founder, please listen. If you are leading a team, please listen. If you're heading up a department, please listen. If you are the CEO or the executive director, get a pen and paper out. I'm so guilty of this. The expert trap is that we do the work we're good at instead of leading others and empowering them to carry on the mission. We talked about this a little bit last week. Oh, I'm really good at tech development. Yeah. And now you're in charge. And so we need you to lead the team and set the vision for the organization. Oh, I'm really good at building things. Okay, but you can only be on two job sites a day. But you said you wanted to expand to 10 job sites a week. So what are we talking about here? That expert trap. I'm gonna fall into this thing where I do what I'm good at. Essentially, we're overcompensating because we want to hold on tight.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

I heard a leader say strength overuse becomes weakness. Um that this idea that um we would talk about it, staff I used to be a part of was this abnormal use becomes abuse. So an abnormal use of something is abuse.

Practical Steps: Trap, Story, Truth, Action

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Abnormal use of something is abuse. Okay, that's awesome. We gotta keep moving. That is so good. I can't, okay. Let's go.

Final Charge And Starter Guide CTA

SPEAKER_01 25:23

So, so this this oh my gosh. This third trap is the trap of comparing. Um, man, I almost just want to share my whole life, but it there is this comparing of the stage that I'm in, um, hitting a new age and a new stage, and I'm in a new season. And what I've been doing a lot of is looking at where everybody else is, um, where they are in business, where they are in their life. And it's caused some things for me. In fact, it looks like paralysis, right? Because I'm I'm I'm scanning, I'm scrolling, I'm doing a bunch of things. And what's happening is I'm avoiding, right? So paralysis, you're avoiding, you're scrolling, you're overthinking, you're often feeling behind. You and I were laughing because I was like, man, I've been, man, I've been at this for a year. You're like, you're six months into the year. Like, what are you talking about? Six months is a long year. And I was just like, so what happens is comparison is so it's it's sneaky, bro. Like, it's so sneaky for the leader because you're looking at everybody else's finishing line. You're looking at everybody else's uh mid-stop or pit pit stop, and you're like, oh, I should be there. It's like, nah, slow down. Because here's what it is comparison is sneaky because it doesn't just steal your joy, it steals your action as well. Yeah, it keeps me stuck. I love this. You watch other leaders highlight reels and you talk yourself out of moving. Right. You know what? They're so far ahead, I could never be there. I'll give you one. You talk controversial. It's often hard for me to actually sometimes sit in the leadership space, talk about shrinking and comparison. Sit in the leadership space because I'm thinking to myself, well, John Maxwell's white. How could I show up in this space? Pat Lin, Pat Lincioni, he's doing great work, but I'm this young black kid from really who whatever. And I need to like, oh, I I love John Acuff, but yeah, he probably had this. Or I love Ryan Leek, but yeah, they had this going on from and so you start comparing yourself so much that you actually don't really look at what you have, and you start looking at what they have, and you find yourself in a matter of inaction. Like you're like, I'm not moving forward. Yeah. What I found is that this not only affects me, but it also affects the people I lead, right? So one way it shows up is shifting priorities. One minute we're doing this, the next minute we're doing that. Oh, because we got to catch up with this person. Right. This is not just uh dude, it's so crazy because it doesn't just show up in what we think is large organizations, but people who are leading families. This is a big deal. Right. Like, oh, today we're on a vegan diet. Tomorrow we're on, you know, uh all meat diet, or it's something as simple as, all right, y'all, we're gonna get everybody's doing these things on Facebook or Instagram. We're gonna do this family re uh uh uphaul. And it's like we do this thing, and your kids are looking like, Dad, um last month we were reading this book. This month, what do we like? I'm just talking from experience, right? So shifting priorities, what it also causes is unhealthy competition. You have people on your team because they're not clear, and because they are trying to navigate how to how to get connection with you, because you haven't actually given clear direction, and because you're comparing yourself to this church or to this nonprofit or to this business or to this family, these folks are thinking, like, well, how do I compete? Right. And also you turn into this unhealthy competition. So they're now trying to compete for your attention and not actually trying to move the mission forward.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

And then there's other parts of stalled action, lower morale. When you compare, your team feels unstable.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah, and they and they have to get stuck, right? If we are constantly looking at out there, then we can't pay attention to what's in here. Yep. And the idea is like, oh, I want to be what they're called to. But the question is, what are we called to? What are the raw materials that we have? What are the desires we have? What has been what has been situated here? Next for being so real on that. I think as you were naming all those leaders who one of them was black, I'm like, yeah, yes. I'm like, you know what though? Whoever it is, especially we have to consider our background, like you talked about earlier, but we we can always find something. Yeah, we could always, it's like a it'll be a never-ending pool of I'm not good enough, they have this, we need to do this, and we become opportunistic, right? Which is something we really try and guard leaders against. It's like, no, we're gonna decide with thoughtfully, discernfully, is that a word? Who knows today? That's good. Let's go. And you know, we're gonna get the information and do it together. What direction we want our family, our team, our organization to go, not to say, well, look what they're doing. It's like, well, you don't even know how they got there. You don't know. And do you even want that? Do you even really do you really want that? And can people actually take ownership in something that uh uh wasn't birthed from the inside? Yeah, it was sort of just given. Yeah, well, that guy's doing this, we're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Great.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Like, oh, okay. What I thought, right? That does that doesn't get us there. Yeah, doesn't get us there. All right, let's let's try and get practical. Let's get practical, man. Let's help the folks out. So step one, identify the trap. What is yours? And as we just talked about, it shifts as you go. Like for me, it used to be shrinking, now it's overcompensating. Maybe I'll have a season of comparing. I'm not sure. But we need to identify the trap. So when the stakes rise, what's my default? Is it shrinking? Is it overcompensating, or is it comparing? I think that's a great first step, but that also comes with a story. The story that we might start believing is something like this maybe you're shrinking and you're saying, I'm not ready. Yeah. I'm afraid if I do this, this is gonna happen. I'm shrinking.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Or you're overcompensating compensating. If I don't do it, it won't get done right.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

I can't let go of control. No one knows how to do this the way I know how to do it. Or finally, maybe it's something that has to do with comparing, and we can go, we can go on these all day long. Their head, I'm behind.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

That's the simplest way. That's compared. I'll show up in a million different hats. Yeah. Their head, I'm behind. They have this, I don't, whatever it is. So identify the trap, name the story, but then we need to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Yep. So you get your trap, you get your story, and then you understand the truth, right? So this shift or this truth, you replace it with a true statement. So I know what's going on. Okay, I'm not ready. So maybe the truth then is that, man, I can lead with integrity, though. Like maybe the truth is I don't have everything that they have, but I have what I have. The truth is, man, I don't have to control everything. Or the truth might be, I actually have ownership in this. The truth is I have agency, whatever that truth is. And maybe it is my next step matters more than their highlight, right? My next step matters. I actually can choose. So you have to determine what that truth is. I found it, JC. It's helpful when you have people who speak the truth to you. It's helpful when you're reading books or you have uh resources. For me, I found it so I found it so much in my faith, having the truth of who I am, what I'm called to do. Like, so you start with the trap, you understand the story, then you feel you, you switch that with the truth. And here's the next thing you take one step. Yeah, so one for me, right? If I'm shrinking, I'm starting with this this truth and saying, you know what, I can lead differently. And then I'm gonna say, you know what? I'm gonna send this email. I'm I've been terrified of sending it, right? And I've been trying to protect them and whatever else, I can send the email. I can make the phone call, I can make the decision. Maybe if I'm overcompensating, right? It's like, let me delegate one thing. Let me ask for one uh part of input. If I'm comparing, maybe I'm gonna stop scrolling, give myself a day off from looking at everybody else's uh highlight reels and actually just walk in what I'm supposed to be walking in.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Well, I'm hearing you with those like small steps, which leadership is just a series of small steps, small, bold, faithful steps is cast the vote for that person. Uh who was Atomic Habits? Uh James Clear. James Clear talks about identity, is about casting these small votes. Yeah, yeah. Who who do I want to be? And sending the email, like turning off the socials, whatever, is just casting a vote. What would a leader do? What would a leader do? There's that question again. I was also hearing you say that we need to live in the land of both and. That this isn't either or. It's not, I'm insecure and therefore I can't lead. No, it's insecure and I can still impact others. Absolutely. Right. And that shrinking space to both end. I think that's so important. So good, man. All right. Let's um what's the give us a final thought, brother?

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Man, I you just hit it that leadership is who you're becoming, right? It is not, you don't have to have it all figured out right now. And I want you to all to hear that as we share these traps, these are not character flaws. Right. But these are areas that you are recognizing, man, I could do better in this. And some of these things you don't just magically get over, but you work through them. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

I would say for me, it's this idea that naming these things with the people entrusted to your care, with your sphere, with the people you're leading, will actually produce more trust and therefore more effectiveness and commitment than if you were trying to avoid them or pretend like they didn't exist. We all have these patterns. It's when we share them with one another, like you're saying, we expose them, yeah, that we actually lead well in the best way.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

All right, so we we gave you a bunch of stuff that we hope is super practical and to give you some mindset shifts. But if you're gonna cross the threshold this week and we just want you to take one step. One thing. Here's the step, here's the one thing, not everything, just one thing that we would say to do. Take a few minutes and identify your trap. Do you shrink? Do you overcompensate? Do you compare? Do you do something else that we didn't name? Tell us about it. And then here, maybe this is yeah, please tell us about it. And then here is the okay, maybe this is like that. Was one A, this is one B. Still one step, friends. Tell someone, yeah. Just tell someone, yeah, just say, hey, you know what I notice? When the stakes get high, I sh I shrink.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Period. And that that will go a long way.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

But we got we got something for you guys. If you are feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or if you want to move forward and you aren't sure how, we want to give you a super practical, quick win. So we have created this threshold starter guide to help you identify your biggest constraint and your leadership at this point and take one clear step forward. It'll take you five minutes to read, but I guarantee you it'll change your leadership as you move forward. We'd love to talk to you about it. Um, it it is shaping the way we lead and we live. Um, but where where are we going next week, man?

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Next week, y'all stay tuned. We want to just dive in a little bit further. We're gonna be talking about capability. What do you bring to the table and what don't you bring to the table? And knowing both matters.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Knowing both matters. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

All right.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

See ya.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

See ya.