The Threshold Moment Defined

SPEAKER_01 0:15

At some point, every leader experiences this. They're overwhelmed, they're scattered, they're stuck in a season where what used to work doesn't work anymore. And every person entrusted with some responsibility and with the desire and to grow and impact others, we all experience this. This is not like this is not strange, but this is a moment. And that moment is what we call a threshold. And so if you're at that threshold moment right now between what was and what's next, or if it's just a moment you recognize you'll probably face in the future, this podcast is for you. Because we're not just here to talk about leadership, but we're here to talk about how do you take the next step and cross the threshold. And that's where we're going today, right? We want to introduce ourselves so y'all know who we are, um, but also help you guys with the framework that we feel like has changed how we think about leadership and how we think about life.

Origin Story And Early Mentorship

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah. Let's go. Episode zero. How did you get here then? I love it. I'll tell you what, it did not start with crossing the threshold, nope, coaching and consulting. Nope. It started with a pattern, a pattern that we both recognized in leaders and places they were stuck in these barriers to growth, a pattern that we first recognize in ourselves. Yeah. But before we get there, we gotta rewind. Yeah, man. Let's tell the story. So it is uh we could timestamp this even. It is uh 2026. Uh we are recording this January 22nd. Jeez. Which means that it was about 11 and a half years ago. Wow, dude. When you helped me cross a threshold and you asked me to be a leader on your team when you were leading at a youth center uh right here locally in New Jersey, man. Jeez, man, wow. Don't start crying. Dude, I'm like, I don't start crying out there.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

But it caught me in a different moment. That's wow. No, that's crazy.

Saying No Then Stepping Up

SPEAKER_00 2:04

So we met, so we met over 10 years ago. Um, I was on your team leading, and then uh we had you moved on to uh move to Virginia and took a different role. Yeah. And uh maybe people saw this clip, but that's when you had said to me about taking on the position that you were having, hey man, it's my dying wish that you take this job. And I had never been so mad, and I remember thinking, absolutely not. Yeah, that's no way, that's not what I want to do. I'm I'm not cut out for that. Who am I to lead that? We'll get to that in a second. And uh the answer was no, definitely not. We had that conversation in June of 2017, yeah, yeah, and in July of 2017, I stepped into that role. Yeah, yeah. Be careful who you hang out with. I mean, seriously, it's crazy. It's good, man. It's crazy. So then, all right, so then you were down in Virginia leading, we stayed connected, and then you ended up moving back here, uh, pursuing this and a whole bunch of different ventures, which I'll let you kind of explain. Um, but before we get into our personal stories, I think it's crazy how this came together. So we both stepped into this coaching and consulting space. Yeah. Oh, we like this, this is cool, and said, you know what, let's meet every other week so we could just talk the crazy out of our heads. Sharpening each other, yeah. Hey man, like, how do we how are you thinking about this? Yeah, this is new. We both come from nonprofit backgrounds, but had this desire to help oral all different types of organizations. And then we started filming it. It's like this is good content. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like this is too good, yeah. And then I think you were like, We should just make this a podcast. Because you had uh experience with podcasts, and then it was about a month, a month into that, when we were filming episodes, we were like, I think we should go in the business. Yeah, better together, right? And it was so clear, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, exactly. That's crazy. It's crazy how all that became this. Yeah. Um, but we we can get into that more, but no, that's good, man. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about your backgrounds, how you think about leadership, how you got here. Yeah, yeah, feel free to get personal, bro.

From Nonprofit Roots To Coaching

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yeah, man. I so I'm thinking about where you said 11 and a half years ago. I'm thinking about that journey for me, started a little bit before of wanting to uh always wanting to help people, right? I to go back to the story of there was my parents were uh separated at 16, 17, my dad went to prison, 18, my parents got divorced. And it was during that time where I felt one of some of the most challenging aspects of my life. I also at that time, there was someone at a youth center uh who actually mentored me. His name was Curtis, and man, it was such uh impact on my life. And I started to decide that there's something different that I want to do with my life, there's something different. And so that led me in a direction where over the years I found myself in nonprofit spaces, uh, working with at-risk students, working with uh folks who were trying to figure out life, particularly or in particularly uh young folks, because they were so impressionable, right? And that's when I felt like I've got the most help. So the reason I share that is because it was through that interaction that kind of led me on this journey of staying in the nonprofit world. And uh, I remember one time giving this presentation at a youth group, and there was this guy there, and I thought I was this rock star of a speaker. Like, man, I know how to work the stage, I know how to do this. I saw this guy walk in, 50-year-old man, salt and pepper hair, and he gets in, and the kids are loving him more than they love me. And I'm like, you know, my little insecurity is showing up. Like, I thought I was really good. Right. What I found out was this guy's name is Tom. Tom was their youth pastor. I said, huh. And Tom just wasn't just a youth pastor, but he was really clear on how to lead the teams and how to lead this. He took us out to dinner afterwards, and I was like, man, I I want to do that. Right. Whatever that is, I want to do more of that. So that started happening, and my wife was like, hey, let's try this out, let's explore where this is gonna go. Right. I applied to a church in Allentown, New Jersey. And from there, I was just mentored and trained by phenomenal leaders. Uh, I think about uh Karen Collins, um, amazing leader, Jenna Brown, Pastor Steven, and um, all of these folks. And then you and I met. And I had this sense, and I'm telling the backpack story because there was a sense of there's something different about this guy. Um there was, you know, you had a tough upbringing, and that's always been my specialty. Like, let's work with the folks that are at risk.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I know.

Burnout, Panic, And A Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_01 6:52

But what I saw in you was a desire for something more, and I wasn't impressed by your story as much as I was impressed by your destiny. Um, and I could see, like, yo, this dude's got something. So I your my my dying wish was was this was was this sense of you have something more to offer this community than I could. So I I felt like um that was why that came about. So so fast forward, man, I went and uh worked at this church in Virginia after leaving Allentown because I'm just kind of like I'm almost wired that way. Let's let's go, let's see what's next. And during that time, man, I had this great run out of church, really awesome church in Virginia. Right and pretty um pretty large, yeah, pretty, pretty significant organization. And they were uh we're doing some great things. I was uh exposed to a lot of different things, leading uh in young adult ministry, uh leading teams, leading uh building up leaders, which I was a passion of mine always. And then I was lit launching a church campus, uh, which was pretty significant. So I've been leading these large campuses, right? Launching one.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

You had you had started a school at that point?

Reuniting And Sharpening The Work

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Started a school of ministry, so I did that. So I'm I'm working in the coaching and consulting thing in one aspect while I'm doing ministry. I'm still out speaking, I'm still working with leaders, and I'm still doing this, and I'm working with an organization in Virginia that I still work with. Um, but there was something that happened to me that was like, man, I need to make a shift. And what I experienced was this uh, I had this panic attack on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, and I've shared that story so many times. Um, to actually today marks a year uh over a year since that happened. That panic attack woke me up, right? And that's kind of a word for leaders that's really difficult to really wake up. You're already established, you're already doing your thing, but there were these thresholds that I was like, something's I'm missing something. Right. And so, anyways, it was a long story short, man. That moment led to another series of moments that I realized that I was burned out. Um realized I was burned out, and the pace in which I was working in, I couldn't sustain it. On top of that, I also felt this desire to help leaders in a different way. And so the combination of those two things and what my family needed was hey, we probably need to move back to New Jersey or at least Philadelphia, Jason. That's where our family is. And so in that process, man, I remember hitting you up. And because we, you know, we stayed in touch and you've been really good at that. And I was like, bro, I'm I'm this is a new season for me. Um, I'm going, I'm just needy. I like, I just I just need it. And so, hey, let's come on, like, like, like come over. Like, and we we put it on the calendar. Let's let's meet every two weeks. And so I'm out and I'm doing coaching and consulting with leaders, and what I had to offer was good. Um, but I think what what's the change for me was when we sat together, what I thought was good started turning into great. Like, right, oh what about this? What about that? Yeah, what about this? And how about we add this system and add this structure? And I'm just like, why didn't I think of this? Right. Right. No, and so then we start exposing each other to our different gifts and strengths, and yeah, one thing led to another, man. It's like uh we were talking about it earlier, a match made in heaven, like not to get mushy, but it's like, bro, we we we've got some strengths that are really good. So that's so good, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, I um for those of you who don't know, Chesapeake Bay Bridge is like uh what, seven miles, miles and miles of water. Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Water on it's a 20 20-minute drive and about 17 miles of bridge. It's just water, yeah.

Why Inspiration Isn’t Enough

SPEAKER_00 11:41

It's crazy, but I've appreciated how transparent you've been with that story. That's helped me. I know it's given a lot of people permission to say, wow, James is leading at this high level. And that was actually like a catalytic moment, a threshold, if you will, that brought you brought you here. Yeah, when you gave me that call and you were like, uh, I'm moving to Allentown, I was like, What? I was so I was so pumped because when I had come to visit you in Virginia just to learn about what you were doing, I remember like, oh, we could do this together, we could do that. Yeah. And I remember thinking, like, you're in Virginia, man. Like, how are we gonna make it work? I don't, I mean, it sounds great, but how are we gonna know? Proximity, yeah. Wait a second. So that's awesome, man. Yeah, bro. Um, yeah, thinking about uh you won't say it, but you know, you have spoken not only nationally all around, but internationally. Um obviously have a ton of experience with students, uh, but also experience uh speaking to leaders and um you and you and your wife Ashley doing marriage seminars and and giving keynote talks on that. Yeah. And I I feel like we share some of this and gets into some of our work. Um is I have some experience speaking with students um at different platforms too, not at the degree that you have, but we have found that that sort of keynote speaking is only a component of the sort of transformation that we want to see. And so beginning to think through with the experience and some of that graduate level training that you didn't mention that I will. I know. I was gonna say I won't name the search and whatever, but hey, I gotta I can gas you up. That's okay. Maybe it is self-serving because you're my partner. I don't know. Anyway, that's okay. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

So we both have master's degrees. I've got a master's degree in one lane of organizational leadership. Yours is a lot more thought-provoking and great. Uh, but I think I think both of us sharing, and yeah, I have I've been able to speak internationally and not just coaching. I think that's the limitation often in my own brain. It's like, oh, I've just done this little work, this little work here. Right. But the truth is, like, yeah, I've coached, uh, I've done executive coaching for some years uh with senior leaders. I've spoken at business conferences. Um my favorite place that I spoke in was Africa. Um, and I and I've just had a really cool opportunity to do some cool things. Right. And I know, you know, that's one of the things too. I as we think about partnership, it wasn't just, hey, let me let me take this guy along. Neither of us were like, hey, let me just take this guy along. We both brought um some significance. So you actually now um actually working with uh what million-dollar companies, like you actually spending time doing executive coaching with them, leading high-powered teams, improving uh, you know, organization. Like I would say maybe 200%. Like I remember where the youth center started and where you grew it into, um, and what you've been able to do in the midst of that.

Defining Thresholds As Constraints

SPEAKER_00 14:30

And so yeah, and it's amazing. All that all that experience, all that has to say that we have had the privilege of being in a bunch of different places, doing some different things, sometimes in spite of ourselves, uh, but coming along with a willing spirit and just always wanting to grow and learn. And that has given us a look at like what does it actually take? Yeah, like to move from inspiration to action to transform. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll just say a little bit on my story. Um, yeah, I had similar, not similar upbringing, but but definitely some challenges. Uh grown up, lost a few siblings, three, uh, not at the same time, all at different times. That kind of shaped me. That took me down uh a pretty dark path. But I'll say, like, from a leadership standpoint, um it's so funny to say, because like I was captain of the football team. That was the first time I realized, oh, I have this desire in me to motivate people in a particular direction. Right. Like I I just am built that way. And thinking about the art of how that happens and and what does that look like, and when you don't necessarily have formal authority, so then you have relational authority or you can have expert authority. Like, how do you actually get people to trust you so you can bring them to a desired location? So that was like the the well-meaning, oh, I I like this, this is interesting. Uh, but I ended up leading people in a whole different direction, selling drugs, doing, I mean, just totally rehab after rehab. And so I ended up at 22 years old. And I'm like, man, I don't really know what to do with my life. And I'm given this one idea that changed everything. And that idea is that uh your life depends on the constant thought of others and how you can grow in maximum uh understanding and usefulness to the fellows about you. Nothing else was working. I said, okay, I'm gonna try that.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah.

Six Thresholds Overview

A Clear Next Step And Guide

SPEAKER_00 16:20

And what I realized was that's the only way to have the sort of impact that I wanted to have, which you and I talk about this all the time, is to develop leaders and organizations. So started studying that, ended up taking over for you, getting a lead in like one of the largest per capita youth centers on the East Coast. I mean, like crazy that we were able to be a part of that for sure, and then continuing to grow in that. And then when you're part of a church community, you get to meet all sorts of different leaders who are coming in and being like, oh wow, that's so interesting. Uh, you have these same problems and you actually pay those people. Yeah. I'm trying to figure out how do I inspire volunteers to lead and lead well and have healthy rhythms and answer those identity questions. I mean, all those big questions. And I don't even pay them. And so I thought I would actually go and I thought, wow, it's actually not saying it's easier or different, it's definitely different. But I was like, wow, I can uh if we can inspire people who aren't being paid, like what would happen for people that are being paid? Correct. And to think about it like this, what I discovered at the church is that just because people are nice or even or even virtuous, like even people who are out there serving, being generous, whatever it is, doesn't necessarily mean that they can work well together. Yeah, just because an organization has those people, yeah, doesn't necessarily mean it's a healthy organization. Like what is going on? Even if we believe in these rhythms of work and rest, doesn't mean that we're implementing them. And so I just became obsessed with wow, how can well-meaning people not work that well together? Or and I and I love I love our church, I love my church. It's not just that, but seeing other churches in other contexts and then meeting people and saying, Oh, these issues, these challenges, these thresholds show up everywhere everywhere. Yep, yep. So I thought, wow, if I could I read, I read, I listen to podcasts, I got training, I do this all day long. I'm like, what if we could what if we could do this as part of our vocation, as part of a living, let's do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In steps, crossing the threshold, coaching and consulting.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

I mean, that's what it is, man. I think you're you're right. It was the the consistent thought of man, I we were we had it on the thing, but it's like people are overwhelmed, right? Uh, people are stretched, and I love that phrase, well-meaning people, um, for some reason can't do it well though, right? Yeah, what is going on? Yeah, yeah. So this is good, man. And I think you're right. This this threshold, I almost wanted to lean in too, because one of the things that's been key with our relationship is that because we've been so we've read so many things, uh, and we've led in different spaces, I think together we've got what, 25 years, 30 years of leadership experience. And what we realize though is that leaders don't need uh another part of advice. Like what we're realizing is that leaders need a map. Right. Like that's what kind of this started with was us saying, like, how do we not just give more content to these leaders? And we would sit and we've been drawing and we've got video games, but we were like, how do we not make like it just so complicated? And it can't, like, I can't afford another conference or I can't do this. How do we actually help these leaders move? I remember us having a conversation, we were talking about it, and I sat down with someone, and I was puzzled, like, how do you help leaders move from inspiration to action? Right. And he started saying, like, well, it's not that they don't know what to do or how to do it, but it's something that's in between. And for us, it was that it's a threshold. Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. No, that's so good. Yeah, I'm putting our finger on that, like, what is the thing we actually want to like help people move across or move toward? And not to say that uh, you know, a threshold is a one and done deal, right? You always move deeper and go further and grow. So I love that. But this idea that there are these threshold moments, the space between what was and what's next. And there's a combination here, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you need good information, you need some inspiration, you need the right system. Yeah, but to think through okay, are there different places that become bottlenecks of leadership? Or the language we've been using is uh what are some of our uh largest leadership constraints? Yeah. What's the thing in this season for this assignment, whatever's entrusted to our care, your care, uh whether you're working in a nonprofit, whether you're heading up a department, you're a team lead, maybe you're the CEO or the executive director. Yep. Amazing. Yep. Where in your leadership is the constraint? Yeah. And so we ended up coming up. You you kind of discovered this thing. I got to, I got to refine it in the midst of this conversation. I just for our listeners, yeah. Um, we'll talk about some of these frameworks. Uh, but when it comes to new ideas and inventing things, uh, that's a frustration of mine. Uh I think my man here literally wakes up in the morning and rolls over and tells his wife, I got three new ideas, which gets her frustrated. It's so real. Yeah. But that's that's part of it. Like I love to refine things. You're such a novel thinker. I mean, it's so good. So so this framework, let's get into this framework a little bit. Before we actually um before we name these six thresholds that we've come up with, uh let's talk about it in maybe uh a bigger way. Yeah, some high levels could. So yeah, why don't you go, why don't you start us on that?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah, I think it's good, man. It's understanding we we keep saying thresholds, but almost to define it is understanding that threshold moments we call they're normal, right? I think some leaders are like, ah, what's what's wrong? It's it's are we failing? No, no, no. Like threshold moments are spaces that are in between. It's what was working before is not going to work in the season to come or wherever you're going next, and it's a transition spot, right? It's a, I would call it, my wife and I were just talking about it, it's a transition zone, which is if a trapeze artist is leading from one bar to the catcher, and in that space in between is a transition zone.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

And so that's really what a threshold moment is. And we we started thinking about okay, what does that really look like? And we had a couple of examples uh here just just for people to know.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

That's so good. No, I I love that. Yeah, so uh we came up with these six thresholds, but let's say uh you are a founder, yeah, and uh the company is growing, you're you're you're wanting to scale, but everything lives in your head. There's a threshold to cross. Yeah. We need to be able to create systems, create operating procedures, but also raise up leaders. Yeah. We want this thing to go further, faster. Absolutely. Or let's say you are uh CEO, executive director, and uh you are part of this executive team, and what you're realizing is that the threshold for the organization is uh we're we're operating like a golf team. Uh we all go out and get our own scores. Yeah. But really, we need to be a basketball team. We need to work together. Yeah. Because that's going to create culture. And if these different departments, these different divisions are actually going to work together towards a common objective, threshold we need to cross. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

That's good, man. And we, if as you dig in, right, you dig into some of the hard stuff and whatever's going on internally, there's often this leadership identity issue, right? That we kind of we're talking about it, but it it's I'm self-doubting. Like, I don't really believe I can actually do this. Um, and what that does is that you don't believe you can do it, and what you're also not being aware of are the people who can actually help you do it or the strengths you bring. So that leads to a bunch of things, which also leads to leaders often navigating. I navigated it myself, is a capacity issue, right? I really don't know if I can sustain this pace, but because this is all I've known and this is how I've gotten the results I've gotten this far, I'm gonna keep that pace. And I keep that pace until it gets me to a point of burnout or boredom. And one of the two is just like I'm checking out, right? Either way, I have to check out because I'm bored or I'm burned out.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah. No, that's really good. Yeah, there's these moments that require change. And I I've been thinking about this so much lately. It's like, oh, people don't like change, people don't like change, but everyone wants growth. Yeah. But growth requires change, yeah, right. And so if we're gonna change, we need to identify the constraint. We have to. So that's again another way to think about these thresholds is you can think about uh a threshold as a constraint, right? What is the thing limiting your leadership right now? Yeah. The key here is not everything, I love it, but one thing. Yeah, we all know what it feels like to feel scattered. Yeah, like our mind is. I mean, I I still am so guilty. I have way too many tabs open on my laptop. We were just working together before. I'm like flipping up, I'm like, uh, I don't know where to go. Not everything, just just just one thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Man, and it's dangerous, like your phone now. Dude, it's this is this is a confession. Um, y'all, y'all stay tuned. Uh-oh. On my phone, I had 500 tabs open in the phone. And I, you know, I get frustrated because I'm like, why is this thing moving so slow? How come I how come I can't get to where I'm trying to go? That's so good. It's because it there's a constraint that I'm trying to I'm trying to do something, and the real fix is not trying to fix everything. Right. Right? To your point, but it's what's that one thing that'll move things forward?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah, what's what's the next step? Yeah. Um the goal is traction, right? Traction. And we believe that if we can name it, then we can move it. We have to be aware of it. Um not that that that's the whole story, yeah, yeah. At least part of the picture. Yeah. Um, yeah, thinking about thinking about your phone, you know, the operating system. And so we want to do the best that we can absolutely every episode to give a clear next step. Yeah. Like to say, hey, here's the next step. So uh hold us to that. If you feel like you listen to an episode and you're like, I didn't have a clear next step, and I left more confused, please. We love feedback. We want to grow too. Give us some feedback. Our desire is to help you cross the threshold. We know that takes a step at a time.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

All right, so let's do this. Let's jump in uh real quick. This isn't no masterclass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a map that that we kind of discovered. Uh, let's walk through these thresholds. So tell us, what's the what's the first threshold?

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah, in terms of naming it, um, I want to name it with giving you the threshold and then also what's that pressing question behind it? Because I think that that's that's gonna help us uh identify it. So the first one would be identity. And the question would be who am I to lead this? Identity, right? Who am I to lead this?

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Right, yeah, yeah. It starts it starts with a leader. I love that. And then that brings us to capability. Uh, and the core question for this is what do I bring to the table? What are my strengths? What are my gifts? Yeah, and embedded in there, what do I bring to the table is also what do I not bring to the table? Something we gotta know.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

That's good, it's good. So then we jump into clarity, right? The that pressing question is what matters most right now? Not not tomorrow, not yesterday, not all the things on my table or my plate. It's what matters most right now.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Yeah, if everything matters, nothing matters. Nothing matters, right? Then that brings us to capacity. And the question here is how can I sustain this well? You've been gave me this little thing like we want to win at work and we want to win at life. Yep. Okay, leadership is about the long term. Sure, there are sprints, yeah, but really in the end it's a marathon.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yep, yep. And then we lean into teamwork. This one's good because the question is, who do I need with me? Who do I need with me? Uh yeah, you need more than yourself to get to where you're trying to go. So the question is, who though, do I need with me? That's great.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

And then we land the plane. Threshold number six is execution. How do I get this done? How do I get this done? Okay, great. We got these ideas. Now I understand. I know my identity, I know all these things. Here's my team. What are the systems that need to be put in place? What are the actions that I actually need to take? Yeah. Um, and then I love just to like punctuate it. Will I act now? So, how do I get this done? That's the question.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I love it, man. I love it. We spent a lot of time, y'all, um, in in the in the lab, we're calling it, right? Spent a lot of time in the lab over what almost 30 years of leadership experience. And one of the things we were trying to do is how do we keep this as simple as possible and accessible for people? So if you heard the questions, you heard the uh the you know, these thresholds, you're like, I want more. I don't know what even to, I don't know where to begin. We created this clear next step for you. And I'm hoping they're getting that, right? Um, the clear next step is that we created this uh threshold starter guide. It's a threshold starter guide where we list these six thresholds, but we also do a deeper dive and we're creating more resources because our hope is every day we get together, we're saying, how do we add the most value to the most people? Really, if we could, how do we give it all away? Yeah. Because I really think that leaders don't need more content, they just need a map. We just need a way of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Right. Yeah, so this threshold starter guide, you can visit the website cttleadership.com, or you can just click the link in the description. And the idea is just to get this framework in front of you. And we think that when you do and when you see these six thresholds, that something will click. And the hope isn't that again, you would say, Oh my gosh, I need to improve in all these areas. Yeah, but you would say, okay, which threshold is my biggest leadership constraint right now? That's it. And then in that guide, you're gonna find just some clear next steps, things that you could literally do this week that we think will move the needle on your leadership. And of course, uh, we would love to talk with you about that. You can you can apply for a discovery call so we can keep talking. But really, we want to get this in your hands just because we don't want this framework to live in our heads.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

And we we think it's gonna make a huge difference. I know it has organized and changed the way I think about life and leadership. Yeah, where I'm like, oh, oh, that's that. Well, that's a clarity threshold. Like, oh, interesting. We can do something about it rather than just being like, man, this is stuck. Yeah, feel good. Yeah, um, not that we're living these perfectly, absolutely not, but we definitely think that they have been they've been really awesome.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

It's good, man. So, so this week, as we kind of one of the things you'll notice on a podcast is we want to give a threshold challenge, like just clear next step. And this week, what I want to challenge you to do is stop trying to fix everything.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Stop trying to fix all of it. Um, instead, let's drill down a little bit to something concrete. What I want you to do this week is download the guide. Yep. Download the starter guide. Then I want you to name the most constraining thing right now in your leadership and take one step forward. Not 10 steps, not a million, not everything, but just one step. So download the guide and then decide what's my constraining thing. What's constraining me and take one step forward?

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah. You don't have to guess, you don't have to go around in the dark, and you definitely don't have to do it alone. There it is. Uh here we are, man. There we are. That's good. Here we are. Hey, we're looking forward. This is gonna be a journey. I'm looking for it.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

It's gonna be good, man. It's gonna be good.